Hello hello, and welcome back to Reading the Wheel of Time. Before we get started, I just want to take a moment to extend a very big and heartfelt thank you to all of you for following this read with me! It has truly been a joy and a pleasure to discover these books and this fandom with all of you, and to indulge my abiding love of deep dive analysis in series that could not be better suited for it. And now, after a few irregular weeks, we are back to our regular posting schedule as we start into book five, The Fires of Heaven.
It’s a bold title, I must say, evoking the rage of saidin and the power of the Dragon, champion of a Light that has often been invoked by characters to burn their enemies. The Light may be good, but it is not gentle, and I think we are going to get an even stronger understanding of that fact in this book. We are just covering the Prologue this week, but there’s enough there for quite a lot of discussion, and I can’t wait to get started.
The prologue opens in the Amyrlin’s study, where some of the Sitters for the Hall have gathered to discuss the state of the world and the Tower. Elaida simmers with rage as the other Aes Sedai talk of civil unrest in Shienar, what should be done about the rumors of Mazrim Taim’s escape and the doubts about the Tower that have been raised by it, the disappearance of the Panarch of Tarabon (possibly with Aes Sedai involvement) and Pedron Niall’s influence there, the fact that no one has found Elayne or Galad yet, and other such matters. Elaida is vexed by the fact that no one is so much as asking her opinions, the women discussing amongst themselves and making decisions without any regard for her position and authority.
It happened too often, this slighting. Worst—most bitter of all, perhaps—they usurped her authority without even thinking of it. They knew how she had come to the stole, knew their aid had put it on her shoulders. She herself had been too much aware of that. But they presumed too far. It would soon be time to do something about that. But not quite yet.
The other aspect of this conversation that has Elaida aggravated to the point of fury is the way the other Aes Sedai are focusing on unimportant matters, afraid to acknowledge the most important truth of all. She waits until the women decide that they have concluded their business and stand, then cuts into the conversation, asking her “daughters” if she has given them leave to go. When they look at her in surprise she adds that, as long as they are standing, they can remain so until she has finished. She goes on to point out that she has not heard anyone mention the search for “that woman,” meaning the former Amyrlin, of course.
“It is difficult,” Alviarin said evenly, “since we have bolstered the rumors that she was executed.” The woman had ice for blood. Elaida met her eyes firmly until she added a belated “Mother,” but it, too, was placid, even casual.
Elaida assigns Joline, who has charge of the search, the task of writing out her own penance, and tells her that if Elaida doesn’t find it strict enough then she will triple it. Javindhra, whose job it is to find and bring back those Aes Sedai who ran off during the regime change, is told to write out a list of everything she has done so far in service of that charge, including what measures she has taken to make sure the world hears no rumors of dissension in the Tower—Elaida adds that if Javindhra doesn’t have enough time for the tasks she has been given, perhaps she should give up her place as Sitter for the Red in the Hall.
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Javindhra assures her that it won’t be necessary, that she’s sure the missing Aes Sedai will begin to return soon. Elaida is mostly satisfied to see that the other women look troubled and cowed by her display, her willingness to come down hard even on her own Ajah. Only Alviarin seems unaffected.
Next, Elaida turns to the topic of Tairen soldiers in Cairhien, sent by the man who took the Stone of Tear. The women are even more visibly uncomfortable as Elaida’s words direct their thoughts to the topic they’ve been avoiding during the entire meeting, and Elaida is tired of it. She points up at the paintings she’s hung across from her desk, drawing their attention to it. The first is a triptych depicting the rise and fall of Bonwhin, the last Red to have been raised to Amyrlin, only to be stripped of her stole and staff and stilled after her attempts to control Artur Hawkwing ended in the near destruction of the Tower.
It is a reminder Elaida keeps for herself to remember the price of failure, but it’s the second painting that she wants the women to pay attention to. It is a copy of an artist’s rendering of Rand al’Thor in the clouds, fighting a man with a face of fire. She reminds them, angrily, forcefully, that this is the man responsible for so much of the unrest they have been discussing, a man who can channel, and she asks how any of them can expect to face him when they cannot even look at a painting.
“Rand al’Thor.” The name tasted bitter on Elaida’s lips. Once she had had that young man, so innocent in appearance, within arm’s reach. And she had not seen what he was. Her predecessor had known—had known for the Light alone knew how long, and had left him to run wild. That woman had told her a great deal before escaping, had said things, when put hard to the question, that Elaida would not let herself believe—if the Forsaken were truly free, all might be lost—but somehow she had managed to refuse some answers. And then escaped before she could be put to the question again. That woman and Moiraine. That woman and the Blue had known all along. Elaida intended to have them both back in the Tower. They would tell every last scrap of what they knew. They would plead on their knees for death before she was done.
Elaida forces herself to say that Rand al’Thor is the Dragon Reborn, scornful of the fear and weak knees she sees in the other women at the words. She tells them that nothing is more important than finding this man, who will go mad and bring a storm down upon the world, who must be brought to the Tower and shielded so that he can be kept safe for Tarmon Gai’don. She demands that each woman be prepared, when next they meet, to explain to Elaida exactly what she has done to make that happen, and then dismisses them.
They flee, leaving only Alviarin behind. Alviarin is a different matter from the others—she knows that her support of Elaida’s cause was what secured the support of the White Ajah, and without that Elaida probably wouldn’t have been able to gain enough support from the other Ajahs besides the Red, and would be sitting in a cell (or worse) instead of on the Amyrlin Seat. Alviarin, with her implacable White calm and knowledge of her own role in the coup, may be impossible to intimidate.
They’re interrupted by the arrival of a terrified Accepted, who tells Elaida that Master Fain is here for his appointment. Elaida snaps at her, but the real anger she feels is for Alviarin, not the girl. She’s intrigued by this Padan Fain person, who arrived at the Tower the day before, wearing clothes that were fine but dirty and too big for him, acting arrogant one moment and cowering the next, and seeking an audience with the Amyrlin, something no man ever does. He’d almost seemed like a fool or half-wit to her, with his jumble of accents, but she had also discovered that he might be useful.
Fain enters the Amyrlin’s study.
He had been surprised to find Elaida on the Amyrlin Seat. Better than what he had expected, though. In many ways she was not so tough, he had heard, as the woman who had worn the stole before her. Harder, yes, and more cruel, but more brittle, too. More difficult to bend, likely, but easier to break. If either became necessary. Still, one Aes Sedai, one Amyrlin even, was much like another to him. Fools. Dangerous fools, true, but useful dupes at times.
He notes the tension between the Amyrlin and her Keeper of the Chronicles as the latter is dismissed, the cracks in power where his seeds could be planted. Something about the way the Keeper’s eyes pass over him unsettles him, and he feels himself hunch. It’s not the first time he’s felt from her gaze like she knows something about him, though he cannot say why. He thinks about how he wants to torture her until he breaks her never-changing eyes, but pushes the thought away, telling himself she can’t know anything and focusing instead on his reasons for patience. He knows that the Horn of Valere is in the Tower vaults, and he can feel the pull of his dagger as well. The dagger that is part of him, that can make him whole again, without the danger of becoming trapped in Aridhol again.
Briefly, Fain contemplates how much things have changed. Aridhol is Shadar Logoth now, and he himself has changed—he’s sometimes not sure who he is, or which of his names is really his, but he knows that he is not what anyone thinks, that he has been transfigured and is now a “force unto himself, and beyond any other power.” And they will all see that, eventually.
Fain is prepared to grovel and pretend, but Elaida cuts pretty quickly to the point, asking what Fain knows of Rand al’Thor. Fain, feeling himself pulled by her portrait of him almost as much as he would be by the man himself, struggles through his raging hatred of Rand and desire to see him destroyed and begins to explain.
When he turned back to the Amyrlin, he did not realize his manner was as commanding as hers, meeting her stare for stare. “Rand al’Thor is devious and sly, uncaring of anyone or anything but his own power.” Fool woman. “He’s never a one to do what you expect.” But if she could put al’Thor in his hands… “He is difficult to lead—very difficult—but I believe it can be done. First you must tie a string to one of the few he trusts… ” If she gave him al’Thor, he might leave her alive when he finally went, even if she was Aes Sedai.
Meanwhile, in Andor, Rahvin lounges in a chair as a woman he is using Compulsion on repeats back her orders to her. It is hot in the room, but the heat doesn’t touch Rahvin. Controlling the woman presents no great difficulty for Rahvin.
A scowl twisted his face. It did with some. A few—a very few—had a strength of self so firm that their minds searched, even if unaware, for crevices through which to slide away. It was his bad luck that he still had some small need for one such. She could be handled, but she kept trying to find escape without knowing she was trapped. Eventually that one would no longer be needed, of course; he would have to decide whether to send her on her way or be rid of her more permanently. Dangers lay either way. Nothing that could threaten him, of course, but he was a careful man, meticulous. Small dangers had a way of growing if ignored, and he always chose his risks with a measure of prudence. To kill her, or keep her?
Rahvin instructs the woman to remember nothing of the encounter once she leaves him, and ties off the flow of Spirit before sending her on her way with Lord Elegar, a Darkfriend who has been standing nearby, unable to hear or see what was happening until Rahvin allowed him to. Elgar obeys obediently, calling Rahvin “Great Master” and bowing out of the room.
As the door closes behind them, a woman’s voice suddenly speaks, startling Rahvin as she asks about the two departing people.
Snatching at saidin, he filled himself with the Power, the taint on the male half of the True Source rolling off the protection of his bonds and oaths, the ties to what he knew as a greater power than the Light, or even the Creator.
Lanfear steps out of a doorway to somewhere else, and Rahvin feels the slight tingle in his skin as she channels. Rahvin demands to know shy she snuck up on him instead of sending an emissary to ask if they could meet, and Lanfear counters by calling him a fool for keeping an Aes Sedai as a pet. Rahvin remarks disdainfully that Aes Sedai today are little more than untutored children armed with self-taught tricks, and that he takes his precautions, and that he now controls exactly what this Aes Sedai spy reports back to the Tower.
Lanfear helps herself to some wine, channeling to lift the pitcher and to bring the cup to her hand, and Rahvin is irked by his inability to perceive her channeling, even though he knows that she would have no more luck seeing it in him. She tells Rahvin that, since he has been avoiding the others, a few of the Chosen are coming to him, and Lanfear came first to assure him that it wasn’t an attack.
Rahvin laughs at that, remarking that Lanfear was never one for attacking openly—she’s not as bad as Moghedien, but always favored the flanks and the rear. He decides that he will hear her out, this time, since he has her where he can keep an eye on her.
He feels male channeling then, and Sammael arrives, broad and compact and sporting on his face the large scar he once received from Lews Therin and refused to have Healed. The next to arrive is Graendal, and Rahvin catches a glimpse through the portal she opens into a room full of pools and naked acrobats and servants, as well as, oddly, a forlorn looking old man in a wrinkled coat. She brings two servants with her as well, a good looking man and an equally good looking woman wearing hardly anything as they serve wine to their mistress.
Graendal remarks over how extraordinary it is to see nearly half the surviving Chosen in one place, and none of them trying to kill the others. Sammael asks if she always speaks so freely in front of her servants. Graendal assures them that her servants love her, demonstrating her absolute control over them for the others.
Rahvin shook his head, wondering who they were, or had been. Physical beauty was not enough for Graendal’s servants; they had to have power or position as well. A former lord for a footman, a lady to draw her bath; that was Graendal’s taste. Indulging herself was one thing, but she was wasteful. This pair might have been of use, properly manipulated, but the level of compulsion Graendal employed surely left them good for little more than decoration. The woman had no true finesse.
They discuss the news of Asmodean’s betrayal and how he has gone over to join Rand. Sammael is skeptical of Asmodean’s courage to make such a leap, and skeptical of Lanfear’s decision not to kill him, if she was close enough to learn so much about Asmodean’s actions. Lanfear responds that she is not as quick to kill as he, when other actions have the opportunity to be more profitable. She adds that she “did not want to launch a frontal assault against superior forces.”
Rahvin asks if Rand al’Thor, this untrained shepherd, is really as powerful as all that, and Lanfear reminds him that Rand is Lews Therin reborn.
Graendal remarks that they have finally come to the topic that they actually wish to discuss, and sits on the back of her crouching male servant while she teases Lanfear, saying she’s surprised that, if Rand really is Lews Therin, Lanfear hasn’t tried to smuggle him into her bed yet.
“You were so obsessed with him you’d have stretched out at his feet if he said ‘rug.’”
Lanfear’s dark eyes glittered for a moment before she regained control of herself. “He may be Lews Therin reborn, but he is not Lews Therin himself.”
“How do you know?” Graendal asked, smiling as if it were all a joke. “It may well be that, as many believe, all are born and reborn as the Wheel turns, but nothing like this has ever happened that I have read. A specific man reborn according to prophecy. Who knows what he is?”
Lanfear assures them that she has observed Rand closely, and that he is no more than the shepherd he seems to be. But he is also powerful, and besides Asmodean’s defection, four other Forsaken have met death at his hands.
Sammael, affecting an air of carelessness Rahvin knows is for show, remarks that they might as well let Rand “whittle away the dead,” leaving more for the rest of the Chosen, unless Lanfear actually believes Rand might triumph in Tarmon Gai’don. Lanfear answers by asking how many of them will still be alive by then, reminding Sammael that he never beat Lews Therin no matter how many times they fought, then rounds on Graendal, remarking that Rand could make her his pet, and Graendal could learn how to please instead of being pleased.
Graendal’s face contorted, and Rahvin prepared to shield himself against whatever the two women might hurl at one another, prepared to Travel at even a whiff of balefire. Then he sensed Sammael gathering the Power, sensed a difference in it—Sammael would call it seizing a tactical advantage—and bent to grab the other man’s arm. Sammael shook him off angrily, but the moment had passed. The two women were looking at them now, not each other. Neither could know what had almost happened, but clearly something had passed between Rahvin and Sammael, and suspicion lit their eyes.
Rahvin says that he wants to hear what Lanfear has to say. Lanfear explains that the four of them can succeed with Rand where Ishamael failed, and that they and no others could have the glory and rewards if they can present Rand to “to the Great Lord on the Day of Return.” She warns that someone is trying to control Rand—she suspects Moghedien or Demandred—and that she knows it isn’t any of them because they have all chosen to carve out places for themselves rather than slash at each other as the others have been doing. They know that she can keep a close watch on Rand while remaining unseen, but that they must all stay clear until they can draw him back. Then she begins to outline her plan.
Graendal leaned forward, interested, and Sammael began to nod as she went on. Rahvin reserved judgment. It might well work. And if not… If not, he saw several ways to shape events to his advantage. This might work out very well indeed.
Okay, you’ve got to admit, there is some irony—some nerve, one might say—in a woman who has just staged a massive, violent take over of the Amyrlin Seat, ranting about the Tower needing to be strong. Elaida is a fascinating character, because it’s not like everything about her choices or perspective is wrong. She’s a smart person, sometimes at least, and she is driven by a genuine belief that she is fighting the good fight for the Light. It is a belief that she comes by honestly, given the Foretelling she had when she was young. I can’t fault her for being driven by that Foretelling, or for keeping it a secret—Siuan and Moiraine have done the same, after all. But there is a little more humility in the way Siuan and Moiraine conduct themselves under this burden of responsibility, and I haven’t forgotten that tied in with Elaida’s confidence that Siuan was doing something dangerous for the Tower is her own frustrated belief that she could have been Amyrlin if she hadn’t made the “sacrifice” of attaching herself to Morgase instead. And now that she has the position, she is very caught up in what she is due as the Amyrlin, irked at the way the others seem to view her as more of an equal than they did her predecessor.
I think Fain’s assessment of her, that she is less hardy than Siuan, more difficult to bend but easier to break, is just about spot on. Even if Elaida believes that her choice to overthrow Siuan was completely justified and morally correct, she still seems aware of the limitations imposed by her specific situation. She knew, going into this, that she needed Alviarin in order to gain the support of the White Ajah, and therefore enough support from the other Ajahs to make the coup possible. When they came to take Siuan, Elaida said that there were enough Sitters present during the decision to make it legal, but it sounds like that it was only just enough. It seems unrealistic to the point of foolishness to think that a huge upheaval made on such a small margin wouldn’t have some ripple effects.
Perhaps Elaida is just so accustomed to the power and authority of the Amyrlin Seat that she assumed it would transfer seamlessly no matter how it was acquired. In any case, I’m not sure that the flogging, either verbally or literally, of her supporters is exactly the way to go. The Amyrlin’s authority over things like punishment is invested in her by the Tower. If the other Aes Sedai already respect Elaida less because of how she got there, what is going to stop them from removing that authority again when they feel she is turning against them with power they helped her to gain?
The way she blames Siuan for all—all!—her problems isn’t going to help her keep her head together, either. She sounds like Nynaeve with Moiraine—the more Elaida makes Siuan emblematic of everything in the world she is frustrated with, the more she’s going to be focusing her energy in the wrong place. And Siuan knew when to be magnanimous, too, knew that authority is not only based on fear. I doubt Elaida knows that, or cares to know it.
But it’s not just Elaida’s ambition and resentment that is responsible for the disorder in the Tower. I can’t help thinking about how Rand is prophesied to bring down nations and divide peoples, breaking the world figuratively, not just literally. He’s not even there, but there mere fact of his existence is shattering the will of the Tower all the same. Watching the other Aes Sedai’s reaction to hearing his name really reinforced for me the point that the people of this world are terrified of the Dragon Reborn. It’s easy to brush off the superstitions of the average person, who knows little about either history or prophecy, but the Aes Sedai of the White Tower know more than anyone else, even if that’s not as much as they would like. And they can barely stand to face what’s happening. It gives me a even more respect for Siuan and Moiraine, and for Elaida too, honestly. Whatever else you can say about her, she reminded me of Siuan as she was lecturing the others about facing the truth of Rand al’Thor. I can literally hear Siuan saying the same words, asking how they can expect to deal with the Dragon’s existence if they can’t even look at a picture of him. Although Siuan’s version of that lecture would probably have more mention of fish.
I wasn’t sure until now where the Red Ajah stood as to what should be done with the Dragon Reborn if the Tower caught him. I seem to remember Siuan and Moiraine discussing the fact that the other Aes Sedai would want to gentle him, but Elaida says that she wants to keep him shielded and safe until Tarmon Gai’don, which does make some sense. Ostensibly, if he were shielded, that would prevent him from being affected by the taint, which would certainly be a good thing. But how could he be ready to fight in a battle if he’s never had the chance to use saidin or learn any control over it. Even Moiraine, who would very much like to direct Rand’s decisions, recognizes that he must learn to use the Power and that she has no idea how to help him do so.
Rand is determined to make his own choices, because he believes that is the only way for him to accomplish what he is meant to do. But I think, too, that the very nature of the Dragon Reborn is to be uncontrollable. He is strongly ta’veren, after all, and as Moiraine points out to Siuan in the beginning of The Great Hunt, they can only have a very little control in the face of that kind of influence. I imagine that even if Elaida were able to carry out her plans for Rand, she wouldn’t be able to hold him forever. Something or someone would most certainly slip, allowing Rand to escape, or take control over them, or something even more unexpected.
And there’s the Forsaken to consider, as well as the Black Ajah. Elaida doesn’t know about Siuan’s hunt for Darkfriends in the Tower, and how she suspects that there are more than just those who fled with Liandrin. And I have to wonder if one of them isn’t right there at Elaida’s elbow.
It’s so quick you might miss it, and I did the first time I read the Prologue. But on my second pass I caught the line where Fain feels for a moment as though Alviarin knows who he is. It’s easy enough to put that down to Fain’s general paranoia and to the fact that Alviarin has such an intense stare about her. It unsettles Elaida too, after all, and I can certainly see the part of Fain that’s still Padan the peddler being cowed under such a look. On the other hand, if Alviarin was a Darkfriend, there is a chance that she might know something of the man who was made into a hound to hunt Rand al’Thor, or even just have a passing familiarity of some of the lower level Darkfriends. Am I reading too much into this? Possibly, but it’s an intriguing idea. And I figure there has to be at least one Darkfriend left amongst the higher-ranking Aes Sedai in the Tower.
If it’s true, I have to wonder what would draw someone devoted to cold logic and reason to side with the Lord of the Dark. It seems like such an emotional choice, usually made by people experiencing fear, greed, or a lust for power and immortality, none of which seem in character for Alviarin, although we don’t really know her that well. If she did turn out to be Black Ajah, though, she’s accomplished a heck of a lot in service of the Dark—Elaida herself knows that the coup would never have happened without Alviarin’s support, and in it the Tower lost Siuan, one of the most important players in the fate of the Dragon up to this point. And I suppose there is a very calculating nature to many of the Forsaken, especially the women, even if we’ve seen more rage behind their masks than we’ve yet seen behind the new Keeper’s.
But getting back to Padan Fain for a moment, I have to say I’m enjoying him again. He’s at his most interesting when he’s doing his Mordeth scheming and manipulating, I think, and I’m very curious how he’ll use his knowledge of Rand to affect Elaida. I’m also curious as to whether he believes everything he tells Elaida in this section—he’s been trying to use Rand’s affection for others against him for some time, and it’s not a bad strategy. But does he also believe that Rand is “devious and sly, uncaring of anyone or anything but his own power,” or is that him telling Elaida what he thinks she will believe, or what will scare her the most?
Lanfear is also picking and choosing her truths and lies. She’s done just as she told Rand she would, informing the others that Asmodean chose to defect and side with Rand instead. It was interesting watching her try to impress upon the others that Rand has Lews Therin’s strength and power but isn’t at all him, even though we know she herself is less sure. No doubt it has something to do with what Graendal said: Lanfear is obsessed with Lews Therin, and wouldn’t want anyone to know how besotted she actually is with Rand and how he’s been resisting her advances. Plus she’s hoping to rule the world with him someday, and definitely doesn’t intend any of them to suspect that she wants the Dragon by her side, not at the Dark One’s feet.
Gotta love Lanfear’s flex, though, using saidar to pour her wine when she knows Rahvin can’t sense her channeling. She probably knows he hates it, too. I was really struck by the fact that the ways men feel each other’s channeling is very different from the way women sense each other. There haven’t been enough male channelers around to observe that, yet. But Rahvin’s sense of Sammael’s channeling didn’t seem as strong as the way we’ve seen female channelers sense each other—there’s no visible glow and there’s the line that “this close, Rahvin can feel it, dimly.” It does seem specific, however, as Rahvin can tell the difference between Sammael drawing power just in case and drawing power with the intent to attack. So that’s interesting, though I’m not sure what to make of it.
I have talked before about how distrust is great weapon of the Dark, how the forces of the Light are often divided and at cross-purposes because they don’t feel that they can trust each other. The worry of Darkfriends everywhere makes people keep things close to the vest, while the fear of disagreements over the handling of the Dragon and other such problems often mean a lack of cohesion within groups, as we see with Elaida and Siuan, for example. And we see it with Rand too. Moiraine, desperate to save the world, doesn’t feel like she can promise to respect his decisions, and Rand is too certain that the White Tower will try to control him to trust the advice Moiraine could give him. Which would probably be good and important advice, even if Rand’s need to do the unexpected took him down a different path than the one suggested. But I am reminded, now, that there is no trust and less love between the Forsaken. They are more powerful than any of the other Darkfriends, and they are ostensibly working towards the same goal of freeing the Dark One from his prison, but really they’re all there for themselves, and, as Lanfear points out, would rather not share the honor or rewards with anyone they don’t have to.
This is a prologue full of villains, and it was a strange section to recap because it contains both moments of intense interest and excitement as well as some pages that don’t particularly catch me. Going over the political discussions of which King and Queen is doing what and which kingdoms are going to war feels a little bit like I’m trying to watch the Trade Federation scenes in Star Wars: The Phantom Menace: Technically all this is important and will come back again, but also I’m pretty bored and won’t remember what anyone said. But I am excited for the character work, and to see inside the minds of some of our villains. I’m curious about Sammael and his scar, about Graendal’s belief that they are “more” than human, and need a new word to describe themselves and what they are. And I’m very curious about Lanfear’s plan, which I rather suspect is as much a trap for her fellow Forsaken as it is for Rand. Maybe much more.
Next week we will cover Chapters One and Two. Chapter Two has a lot of talking, but Chapter One is one of my favorite chapters to date and I am very excited to talk about it. Until then, have a lovely week, and remember than no one person can be responsible for all the bad things in your life. Even Rand al’Thor.
Sylas K Barrett really ought to keep a list of named characters to keep track of who everyone is and where they are from. But he is not organized, and he is not going to do that.
One does wonder what would have become of Elaida and the Tower without Fain’s (admittedly brief) influence over her.
I love the amount of time we get to spend with most of our villains. The exceptions being Taim and Demandred, of course, but the less said about that, the better.
The Forsaken quarrel like spoiled children and plan how to stab each other in the back. Thank the Creator. The Light would be in even more trouble if the enemy was capable of coordinating.
Verin shudders at the idea of trying to trap a powerful ta’veren in the Tower. Verin is a lot smarter than Elaida. Elaida reminds me of a remark made by a historian about Mary Queen of Scots. She combines a thirst for power with a total incapacity to rule.
Denial is a surprisingly common strategy for dealing with the Dragon Reborn, the Forsaken and the threat of the Dark One.
I think Fain’s influence over her was minimal. Her instability at the end was mostly from constant failures, frustrations and basically a mental break. Her original bad decisions were due to: lack of data, mostly because Alviarin concealed most important stuff and cherry picked info she got; innate discrimination towards male channelers, which most of Aes Sedai especially Red Ajah were guilty of; and undeserved trust towards Red Ajah which was at least 50% infiltrated by Black Ajah and working to undermine her and White Tower as a whole. If you notice, all her really bad decisions started after first major failure with Rand and Asha’man fiasco, and especially after Alviarin took control. After that frustration Elaida started to mentally break.
@3:
All of which occurred within a month or so of her coming into contact with Fain, or thereafter. It’s inconclusive. But we see how Fain corrupts everyone else he is around, and who he gets sit-downs with. It’s not like Jordan was being subtle.
Elaida was a real piece of work before ever meeting Fain. So I doubt he had any effect on her.
Eh, I think Fain’s influence is there, but often overrepresented. He certainly gets those in power he associates with to give him some or all of what he wants from them, but his influence over High Lord Turak & Pedron Niall was somewhat limited. Sure, he probably made sure Niall and Elaida would never trust or ally with Rand; but let’s be honest, that was not very likely in any event. The fact is that Elaida was a wrong-headed person who could be counted on to always draw the wrong conclusion about anything (in this she is only rivaled or perhaps exceeded in the series by Gawyn) with megalomaniacal tendencies. All before Fain showed up. I think Sylas was a bit charitable in his description above, if anything.
So, while Fain certainly made Elaida more paranoid, I’m not sure how much of her descent into caricature villain at the end could be laid at his feat versus pressure, failures, stress of mental breakdown (ala Azula from Avatar: The Last Airbender), or just the change in authors.
I also must add that I love these brief vignettes of villian/antagonist viewpoints and meetings we get to set the stage with what’s going on around the world.
” as well as, oddly, a forlorn looking old man in a wrinkled coat.”
Never caught that one before, cool to see him this early.
For me every Elaida POV just reinforces how unfortunate it is that we don’t get to see Egwene complete her takedown. Egwene’s defense of the Tower during the attack is really cool to see, but I wish she could have finished what she started when she was so close.
We are so, so far from Dumai’s Wells and I am so looking forward to it.
@@@@@#8 Nixorbo
I have been looking forward to that as well. I am also interested in how Sylas views the event.
I mean, there’s a Fain PoV later where he remarks that after his time with Niall and Eladia, they might trust their own mothers, which tracks directly with what we see at the beginning of TGH and his influence on his jailors.
Eladia and Niall are exactly the sort of people who’d be most susceptible to that kind of thing, too: Powerful, self-righteous, and distrustful right to start with. Sound like Aridhol to anyone else, yeah?
Sure, she’s a piece of work to start with, what with, you know, launching a violent coup that only succeeded in legality by virtue of being supported by [i]at least[/i] three servants of the Dark One in the vote — Talene, Alviarin, and the Mysterious Brown Ajah Sitter Who Brought In The “Masons”, but Fain would’ve exaggerated all her worst tendencies.
MODS: Is it possible for Sylas (or you) to add a reminder at the end of every post? Something to the effect of “The comments are open for spoilers. Sylas does not read the comments anymore.” Leigh used to include such a note, which is helpful for casual readers/posters who may not know that policy Sylas announced ages ago.
It’s very cumbersome to try to read whited out/blacked out text on a mobile device, without some built-in spoiler tag feature.
Not to mention that other first-time readers may be lurking and inadvertently spoiled because they didn’t know that most of us are posting spoilers here.
“Sylas K Barrett really ought to keep a list of named characters to keep track of who everyone is and where they are from. But he is not organized, and he is not going to do that.” – LOLOLOL. Oh darling, you have no idea :)
I get this weird satisfaction at how inane and banal and bicker-y the Forsaken are.
I agree Elaida is a fascinating character, and one that is easy to truly dislike, and yet isn’t an outright villain. One that is both clever, but not nearly clever enough and thus ends up doing many stupid, stupid things.
@1 et al.
Coincidentally, I was just thinking about this earlier this week. I know that Fain in general is a bit of a sore spot for a number of reasons, but I have never had that much of an issue with him or the effect he has had on the series. But this week, I was thinking about how Fain had contact with I think every single explicitly malicious character that is not outright a Darkfriend. The more I thought about it the more I realized I really dislike what that does from a thematic perspective to the entire story. Obviously since I never really noticed it until recently, it’s not a huge issue, but one of WoTs most predominant themes is agency. I would go so far as to say it is the most predominant theme, what with the whole Wheel of Time and the Pattern thing.
What then, does it say about agency that every single person who is overtly malicious but not “evil” was implicitly “made” that way by an external force. It’s been pointed out that if you really think about it, the effect was probably minimal, given the exposure length, but from a thematic perspective that doesn’t really matter; after all, the characters believe the effect is profound, so it doesn’t matter so much if it ends up being true or not, the book has made that statement to the readers, and it therefore is part of the theming of the story regardless of it’s ultimate effect.
Lisamarie@12:
She is clever — and moderately intelligent — but both qualities are spoiled by her arrogance, which also mitigates her experience. And like most arrogant people, she finds herself intimidated by people who have talents that she doesn’t possess.
Compare this to Cadsuane, who is temperamentally very similar to Elaida. Cadsuane surrounds herself with people who have talents greater than hers in certain areas. She is not intimidated by their ability. She cultivates it and makes use of it. She does not feel that the abilities of others make her less. Elaida, on the other hand, feels that intensely.
The other person with a similar personality is Nynaeve. And she did struggle with some of the same things Elaida struggles with, because of her struggles in the Two Rivers to have her authority recognized in her youth. She could have gone down a similar path as Elaida.
Those three characters provide a nice comparison of the different directions you can take the “strong woman in authority” trope.
@13:
The message is that for most of the world, Agency is an illusion at best — we are all products of something. Nothing is ever entirely our own idea. Even when we “break free” from the past, much of our decision making becomes a reaction to that past, instead of thoughtful, proactive action. We are still not our own masters.
We recognize this in a lot of areas of life. That’s why we hold drug addicts accountable for their actions, but agree that they aren’t entirely in control anymore. That’s why we have a temporary insanity verdict. That’s why we recognize that other cultures are going to make decisions that astound and sometimes horrify us, but we still hold them as human (at least, we used to).
With the benefit of the knowledge of what is going to happen (Dumai’s Wells!), one could say that what the painting of Bohwin really means is that controlling a Ta’veren is impossible and leads to disaster, and is not merely a reminder of the cost of failure in doing so.
I can’t remember, who is the old man in Graendal’s palace? Is he the King of Arad Doman?
It’s funny that Rahvin thinks Graendal has no finesse with her Compulsion, when she’s the true master of that technique.
Also, the teasing between her and Lanfear is so fun.
@15
I think that’s a very accurate and hopeful interpretation of the messaging; and 2 years ago I probably would have said exactly the same thing (not saying I’m wiser now, quite the opposite, if anything, I’m just more cynical). But I feel like that takes away from the very real internal, even banal, causes of negativity. All of the things you said about external factors is true, and now that you have said that, I am glad that the book is, in this way, addressing those causes. But people are also often jealous, or bitter, or lashing out in frustration for much more intimate and personal reasons – things caused by their own choices and/or mistakes – and I kind of feel like Fain effectively saying “it was someone else’s fault I’m like this” in, like, 70%+ of the cases in WoT takes away from that.
And to be clear, I’m not casting blame or acclaim here. In a story that asks the question “how much control do we really have over our own lives?”, it just strikes me as weirdly heavy handed to have such a strong statement leaning toward one side of the argument. Everything else makes it a question, this is much more of a statement.
I guess I just wish there were more examples of both extremes. Or, maybe just as likely, I have drifted more toward the “Greek tragedy” side of the fictional moral spectrum.
@16: It’s Jaim Farstrider.
@18 Thanks! Right, I totally forgot this.
@15, 17 – There is no agency in WoT. You do as the Wheel needs you to do. Rand was never going to wind up in Tar Valon because that’s not where he needed to be. His very nature as the key ta’veren for the Age would never allow it. Every action any character takes in the series was in service of what the Wheel dictated. Even the Darkfriends served the Wheel’s purpose. Heck, I’m pretty sure the Dark One is just a mechanism of the Wheel.
@@@@@ 13 – But the below very much isn’t the case
What then, does it say about agency that every single person who is overtly malicious but not “evil” was implicitly “made” that way by an external force.
Elaida chooses to usurp the Amyrlin Seat by a move of questionable legality of her own volition, and as we see here, her motives are by no means as pure as she would like to tell herself; a love of power, of authority, and a desire to exercise it over others are natural to her to begin with.
Pedron Niall is a religious zealot who already had a history of invading other lands to annex more territory, or to send his (essentially paramilitary) forces into other nations to destabilize their politics and exert influence at sword’s length. It’s also implied he has an unusually high opinion of his own abilities because of his successes earlier in his career.
In other words, Padan Fain/Ordeith doesn’t cause you to become “malicious,” but he does amplify all the bad things in a bad person’s character. Elaida has some redeeming qualities, as we see here, but over time they subside and her arrogance and Sauron-esque will to dominate come forward because of Fain’s influence. But her original sin, the one thing she did which weakens the cause of the Light immeasurably, she does before she’s exposed to Padan Fain, in launching a coup. The fact she worsens quickly afterwards doesn’t absolve her of that. Pedron Niall may succumb more and more to his delusions of grandeur that he can win the Last Battle if only everyone obeys his command, but it’s pretty clear he felt that way anyway; his thoughts on the nature of the Last Battle smack way more of a long-standing belief than something Fain put in his head.
Or take Toram Raitin, who we have yet to meet. We’re told he was an asshole as a kid, petty and jealous and violent – contact with Fain only worsens an already despicable personality.
Or Lord Turak, who frankly isn’t fleshed out enough to be sure, but seems to suffer little to no ill-effect from exposure to Fain.
@20 That has never been my reading of the series, but I do believe that it is a totally valid take on the WoT world. Which is sort of my point I guess. I would argue that agency is a debatable point in WoT. Is the Pattern Cause? Or is it Effect? Does the Pattern dictate people’s actions? Or do we interpret past events, and extrapolate from them an intent? Ta’veren certainly argues for Pattern as Cause, but much like the explanation given by Loial in EotW, it does not prohibit choice. With the exceptions of Rand, Perrin, and Mat, every other character is where they are entirely due to the choices they have made, or the choices of those around them, and even Rand et al make a number of consequential choices beyond the influence of that pattern. Rand’s schools come to mind. They are a thing entirely of his own making, that – as far as any evidence within the story shows – has no real effect on the story being told (beyond minor things that could have happened more easily any number of other ways). They were made by Rand’s volition, and will likely have resounding effects on the world.
The Mirror Worlds also strongly speak against determinism, as they would be impossible in a purely deterministic world.
@21
I agree, but all of those are the textual readings of the characters – and the way that I have read the series up until about 5 days ago. What I am talking about is the meta-textual reading. Basically what the text is saying extrinsically beyond the story being told. By the narrative, everything you said is 100% true, but Fain *strongly* believes, and it is presented to the reader as fact, that his influence has indelibly changed those individuals for the worse. For the purposes of what I am trying to say, the fact that that sentiment doesn’t really bare out in the text is somewhat secondary, because in that moment, the text is strongly arguing that because of Fain’s influence, those characters have no choice but to be worse than they were.
Though it does give me heart to consider the fact that that message does, in the end, bare out false, so in balance ends up being kind of moot. The whole thing is a bit muddled by the end though, but I suppose that just lends it more fertile ground for discussion.
Re: Agency and Responsibility
In preparing a talk on science/theology some years ago, I ran across a study that found that 80% of inmates in US prisons for violent crimes were abused as children. I’m sorry to say that I don’t remember the source, and can’t vouch for the result (nor do I know how “violence” and “abuse” were defined.
Still . . . if anything close to this is true, one has to question the way we consider “guilt” and “sin.” If our choices in life are so heavily influenced by our treatment (and especially treatment we experience as children), the idea of “punishment” for those choices seems pretty unfair. This is one area where science (sociology and/or psychology in this case) would seem to impact religious doctrine.
@21:
It wasn’t questionably legal, it was exactly legal. Elaida had no way to know that some of the people involved would later be revealed to be Black Ajah. Up to that moment, the official, legal position of the Tower was that the Black Ajah didn’t exit.
No one’s motives are ever pure. Everyone has multiple reasons, both conscious and unconscious, for every decision they make. And held to the microscope, the vast majority of those unconscious decisions are made for self-oriented reasons — that’s called being human.
She also had very good and logical reasons for her actions — ambition alone would not have caused her to act, in my opinion. Your opinion may differ, but the text isn’t going to support either of us very far in that regard.
In my opinion, this is not quite right. The traits we have are like tools, or gifts… ambition is not good or bad. Rand displays enough ambition for twenty villains throughout the series. The quest for personal power can be a quest for personal autonomy, or it can be a quest to force others to conform to your way of thinking. None of these character traits are inherently bad. Dangerous? Sure. Bad? That depends, like any tool, on how it’s used.
What Fain does is corrupt those traits. Look at Dain Bornheld. What was corrupted in Dain? His filial devotion. Fain corrupted what is generally a good and right trait and turned it into something that drove Dain mad.
Except many people, including about a third of those in the Tower, and half the sitters in Salidar, think Elaida may have done the right thing. And from a narrative perspective, if Siuan doesn’t go down, perhaps the Black Ajah is never dug out, things go way differently with the Black Tower, and Egwene never comes to power, which is arguably the most necessary part of anything the Tower did leading up to Tar’mon Gai’don. We look at it as sin because Siuan is a viewpoint character. But even Siuan thinks she’s going to get deposed and stilled because of Moiraine’s actions, way back in The Great Hunt. Siuan was right. What Elaida did in the coup wasn’t evil on a personal level, or on a Pattern level — it was just how politics work in the Tower. As Siuan herself testifies to on numerous occasions.
@23:
Punishment and correction are frequently linked in many societies. What the effectiveness of this might be is up for debate, of course, but deterrents to behavior (which punishment most certainly is, at the very least), have proven effective in behavior modification. But I think regardless of how we get to be the way we are, and how no decision we will ever make is made in a vacuum, we are still responsible for our actions. We do have choices, even if the likelihood of us choosing differently isn’t very good.
Whoohoo! Villain-filled prologues are the best prologues, even when they might be more like interludes. This one gives us a little Fain POV and the first wonderful Chosen Happy Hour. And Elaida, who I find generally less interesting than the others — she’s not from the distant past and doesn’t knowingly serve the actual devil — but kinda fun here in her frustration. A great start to the last WoT book I much enjoyed before the Shadowspawn-deprived slog that spreads from LoC through CoT.
“There was nothing of sickness or healing [the Yellow Ajah] could learn from people who could not channel.” Aaand there’s a big weakness of the White Tower, a woolheaded paradigm that Nynaeve can’t be having with.
I like Sylas’s comparison of Elaida blaming everything on Siuan to Nynaeve blaming everything on Moiraine.
Who’s the old man at Graendal’s place? I don’t remember.
Ha! Didn’t notice until Sylas quoted Fain’s view, that he wanted Elaida to get Rand to him. Obviously from her POV, she wanted Rand in the tower too, but Fain looks to have strengthened that impulse. As others have pointed out, the Pattern couldn’t allow that, hence Dumai’s Wells. Books 5 and 6 were my favorite until KoD came out.
@25 Aeronagreenjoy – As noted by @18 Foamy, it’s Jaim Farstrider
@26: Thanks. I was half asleep when I read the comments. When do we learn that?
@27: Honestly, I thought it was Alsalam, the Domani King. But upon reflection it does make sense that it was Graendal that got her claws in Noal. Explains why when Mat would ask him certain things, part of his mind was blocked out and he would enter a little fugue state. I’m curious if Noal had instructions installed to report Mat’s activities and that he wouldn’t remember the reporting. I think he eventually kind of figured out what was going on though, and used his last stand in the Tower of Ghenjei to escape his Compulsion.
@27:
I don’t know that we know for sure. Noal confesses that his mind had been messed with by the Forsaken, but being around Mat allowed him to break away from it, and he shows some obvious signs of having been tampered with by high levels of Compulsion, which is Graendal’s bag, as mentioned here by Rahvin, when we first see the old man. He later shows up spying on minions of the other Chosen, so we kind of assume he was Graendal’s eyes on what the other chosen were up to, until Mat’s ta’verenness snatched him up.
There may have been more revealed in Towers of Midnight/A Memory of Light, but I have to confess, I’ve only read Knife of Dreams and the Sanderson books once.
Re the discussion above re Jain Farstrider – I was assuming it was an early reference to the King of Arad Doman, myself. I can’t rule out Jain. I know he had been messed with by the Dark One or Chosen by I had thought it was in Shayul Ghul itself and am having trouble placing him with Graendal, who tends to focus on beautiful people or very powerful lords and ladies in her neighborhood. Jain doesn’t quite fit the bill. I’m open to the Graendal hypothesis but is it better established elsewhere in text?
Anthony Pero – please re-read Knife of Dreams and do it ASAP. It is a marvelous book, a fitting last work of RJ, easily a top five or top six work for the entire series. Several of the chapters are masterpieces (the Golden Crane, a Cup of Kaf, As If the World Were Fog, Honey in the Tea, among many others). Read it, live it.
Feel free to pass this link along to Sylas: http://sites.ugcs.caltech.edu/~karlh/cgi-bin/wot.cgi
Can look at a character list from any book and choose whether to see their initial description (no spoilers) or final description from the series.
Yep, Knife of Dreams is excellent, lots of payoffs for the previous books. And boy, didn’t we need those payoffs! From a personally selfish POV KoD made me even sadder of the passing of Robert Jordan. The conclusion of the series was shaping to be back on a terrific track.
Anyway, the comments and Sylas analysis very enjoyable as usual.
You all beat me to it. Saw Anthony’s comment that he only read KoD once and I was a bit stunned. I simply adore that book (in my personal top 3, for what that’s worth…). I’m never quite sure if it’s just because it comes after several…lesser books, but whatever it is, I always greatly enjoy reading KoD. So so grateful Jordan was able to write it before he left us.
I remember KOD having a huge impact when it was released, as the plot actually moved forward a lot and it came after one of the most reviled fantasy books of all time, Crossroads of Twilight. It was a night and day difference.
@33:
I haven’t done a re-read of the entire series since the lead up to KoD. That’s why I haven’t read KoD more than once. I don’t see the point in just reading that book, because its culminating the arcs of books 8-10. And I started having kids in 2005 when it came out. So reading time is precious, and discovering new things takes precedence.
Although, I obviously spend way more time talking about WoT on the internet than I do reading new books, lol.
I had never realised before, but here we get Rahvin’s musings on compulsion and the ability of some strong willed people to resist. Whilst internally he’s refering to Morgase, we also get our first sight of Jain Farstrider, under the compulsion of Graendal, who will later prove to be somewhat resistant to compulsion and his will to “die clean” or something similar at the Tower of Ghenjei.
That’s impressive foreshadowing right there.
@30 To me, it makes sense because, regardless of looks or political power, he is one of the more famed people in the modern society of the books’ world — a guy whose adventures are chronicled in books and whose name is seemingly known well by about every young man with a hint of literacy in the world. Guy like that would both serve as a high-prestige toy and as a very useful tool, due to his inherent resourcefulness.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but a lot of the “she’s super-vain and only cares about breaking beautiful nobles via her compulsion” narrative that surrounds Graendal comes from other members of the Forsaken in their “unreliable narrator” narration. With her being far more cunning and resourceful than a Rahvin or Sammael, allowing her to likely cultivate a particular image that comes forth in others’ narration while actually being a far more competent “thinking person’s” Forsaken than pretty much any of the others completely grasp for a really long time. You’ll get the occasional “only a fool would think she really is a vapid airhead” observance by Sammael, but that usually winds up getting followed by him stubbornly thinking he’s the leader and she’s the follower who needs him far more than he needs her in their little alliance, so it’s not exactly made subtle by Jordan that the other Forsaken don’t take her intelligence and resourcefulness nearly as seriously as they should.
Re: the disconsolate old man
I’ve gone back and forth on whether it was Jain Farstrider or King Alsalam. Jain/Noal being Compelled by Graendal certainly makes sense… but there is the complication that Ishamael had also kidnapped and likely Compelled Jain years ago, to spread word of his trap at the Eye of the World. It’s possible that both Forsaken had their claws in him at different times.
At the same time, the explanation in ToM that Alsalam was just kidnapped by the White Tower and moved (veeery slooooowly) by land for about 9 books doesn’t exactly satisfy. Graendal writes letters impersonating Alsalam which she doubtless would not do if she was not either a) in complete control of Alsalam, or b) knew for certain he was dead and couldn’t resurface. I remember a number of theories about this back in the day.
Bottom line though, the WoT Companion does make it clear the old man was Jain after all and that Alsalam was just kidnapped by Elaida, as unsatisfying as I find that. Mayb we were meant to wonder if that was Alsalam when TFoH came out, or perhaps RJ changed his mind later.
I’m curious why some are prepared to completely credit Fain’s internal monologue about how effective his ability to sow distrust is, in otherwise strong-minded characters… especially when WoT is defined by unreliable narrative and fallacious total internal reflection from almost every character of consequence.
Fain’s efforts with Elaida were circumvented by his interrupted attempt to retrieve the Dagger. Elaida’s mistakes as depicted (and already noted by others earlier) in the story were entirely due to already established prejudices, ambitions & related megalomaniacal tendencies, along with having a heavily compromised Chain of Command. Even after initially being routed by Alviarin, Elaida eventually finds a way to reassert political and nominal authority, by deducing correctly who exactly to give agency to, in order to hamstring Alviarin… even if she herself does not credit the real possibility of her own carefully seeded insinuations.
Fain’s efforts with Niall yielded only a squad of Children (led by a junior officer Niall would have wanted conveniently removed from the larger fray) & did not influence his attempted, actually consequential manoeuvring.
The only semi-consequential character Fain was demonstrated to have achieved total corruption of was Toram Riatin… and we are clearly given no doubt ‘in-story’ that he was an overcooked steak long before they ever met.
Fain was a wildcard in & of himself. It is demonstrably not because of anything he achieved by influencing other characters of consequence over the course of the narrative. Even someone as weak & compromised by character AND events as Dain Bornhold, is ultimately redeemed.
With respect to the sad-faced old man, we have more reliable information that he is most likely Alsalam instead of Jain Farstrider, the convenient unveiling by Rand to Ituralde notwithstanding. As others have already noted, Ishamael had already broken Farstrider long before Graendal & the rest of the Forsaken escaped their slumber. The filaments of thread used to loosely tie unrelated cases together like this, illustrate the worst of the concluding trilogy for me.
@39:
I personally consider The Wheel of Time Companion to be reliable information. Since it was compiled by Team Jordan and they have stated that everything in there can be considered canon…unless it is explicitly contradicted in the text of the series. Which this isn’t.
From the Companion:
It goes on to say she sent Jain to Ebou Dar in search of the supposed Cache the other forsaken were looking for. That’s why he was spying on the other Forsaken’s catspaws in the region. This wasn’t something Brandon invented. That’s the reason in the notes he was spying on the other Forsaken’s minions.
So, could Jordan have retconned the old man? Sure. He did that all the time. But by the time we see the beggar spying on Carridan, this was already true.
@40 – That’s one of the unfortunate effects of RJ passing too early. His notes frequently differed from what eventually wound up in the text. He was known to frequently change his mind/retcon stuff (I have a sneaking suspicion that he was too reactive to the fandom, i.e. Taim/Demandred). So you can’t even take his notes as canon. I wish I could visit an alternate timeline where RJ didn’t pass away and finished the series and freely answered the fandom’s questions. Sigh.
@41:
As I mentioned, if this was something that he changed his mind on later, then he changed it so the old man was Jain Farstrider, so he could use him to spy on the other Forsaken for Graendal. So, it’s possible his original intent was for the old man seen in this prologue to be Alsalam, but that would have changed as far back as Crown of Swords. That’s the point — its obvious from the text, combined with these notes, that Farstrider was Compulsed by Graendal and used as a spy. That’s not a retcon… that’s what he is obviously doing when he appears as the beggar.
Not his notes, no. But the Companion is not his notes. Its Team Jordan taking his notes and writing out what is considered canon from them — its an extension of the Glossary found at the back of each book. The Companion only represents a tiny fraction of his notes — the ones Team Jordan is sure about. Although they did leave some wiggle room if any of us caught an error in it.
@40
I’m not arguing the fact of what is presented. Merely noting how poorly drawn the threads are within the novels themselves.
I have nothing but contempt for The Companion, but entries such as the one you quote above, seem to me to emphasise my original point… in that they are both an assertion and the only support for that assertion – despite thousands of words being written within the books themselves, where it isn’t even mentioned, much less explicated in any way.
Where what is actually written in the novels (as I remember it) points entirely in the opposite direction to what The Companion asserts.
The facts are what they are. I’m just registering my exasperation with the way they have been presented.
Mmmm. I haven’t read much of the Companion, but I’ve seen contradictions while being tempted by their new information. It says that Trollocs with paws or talons (instead of hooves or human feet) are deemed unviable and killed at birth by exposure, as are Trollocs with the features of multiple non-human animals. But the books occasionally feature such Trollocs — e.g. Narg’s wolf muzzle and goat hooves! I can try to headcanon reasons why one might occasionally survive — it endured a period of exposure and was deemed viable, or its littermates were stillborn and it was the sole focus of its mother’s protective instinct, etc. Or I could write off the Companion’s claim as being non-canon, but that’s less fun.
But that’s me, and my tendency to grab any scrap of information on Shadowspawn biology. Including off-the-cuff answers RJ gave at book signings and the like, though I sometimes wonder if those are canon enough to be worth my reconfiguring a whole headcanon. At least I take them somewhat seriously now. I used to be more stubborn, e.g. I refused to believe Myrddraal were incapable of interbreeding with anything until I read RJ’s explicit statement on the subject.
/tangent
@@@@@ 22 – What Fain believes is immaterial. He may be right that he’s changing these people for the worse – but they were already antagonists, and perhaps even “evil” before Fain comes into their lives. The original complaint was that having all the “bad” characters be made that way by exposure by some external force lessened the idea that there is individual agency in this universe. I don’t think that’s accurate – some people become worse, but that doesn’t mean they were “good” to begin with. Plenty of minor characters are portrayed as unsympathetic at best, from the Taren’s Ferry ferryman who was implied to be about to rob our heroes, to any of the noblemen who will play politics with Armageddon on their doorstep.
@@@@@ 24 – Elaida violates the spirit of the law in her actions to depose Siuan, and as Egwene astutely points out, this is exactly why plotting in secret is not a good idea for promoting unity. Any “legal” action which requires killing people who might not agree with it doesn’t strike me as an ethical or “legal” choice in every sense of the word. Anything can be glossed over with a veneer of legality – anything. If I pass a piece of legislation saying anyone with the name James should be killed immediately, that’s legal.
Moreover, and again to Ewgene’s point, whether or not Elaida wants to admit to herself the Black Ajah might actually exist is immaterial. This is a possibility that all Aes Sedai are aware of, however little they want to admit it. Which means she should be aware of the idea that there might be a Black Sitter. Ignorance is not a defense under the law.
As to your other points, whatever reasons she may have for acting, they just don’t stand up to scrutiny when taken in context of the reality of her actions. She isn’t interested in correcting Tower policy, she’s interested in being Amyrlin. You bring up an interesting fact (that even the Salidar sitters aren’t sure if they approve of Siuan’s actions) but miss the more important implication – these people think Siuan may actually have been in violation of Tower Law, but that even actions worthy of deposition or censure aren’t as bad as what Elaida does. Elaida could easily have had a Red Sitter bring up those charges, which will lead to Siuan’s censuring, lack of effective power and a course correction on how they deal with Rand. She doesn’t. She instigates an extremely violent coup in secret. A coup, we must point out, which is viewed extremely unfavorably. The majority of the non Red or Blue Ajah members effectively come down as further against Elaida than for her – as is pointed out, the White Tower is a symbol of legitimacy, so the fact that a third of Aes Sedai are sitting out the conflict means a slight bias towards the rebels. And since the Red is largest Ajah (by far), it means relatively few non-Red sisters are supporting Elaida, even at first.
All of which was an extremely long winded way to say that no, Elaida’s coup should not be viewed as legal. Just because she, a person who is notoriously blind to anything she doesn’t want to see, thought it was legal does not make it so. It violated both the spirit and the letter of the law, and to again echo Egwene, you don’t even get to stand on the leg of “she didn’t know about the Black Ajah,” because that’s the whole reason you don’t pass major, literal life or death, legislation with the bare minimum quorum! In violating the spirit of the law to adhere to the letter and still get the power she craved, she violated both. And again, she had many other paths open to her if what she truly wanted was a different policy in regards to Rand. That is obviously secondary, because her first order of business was to depose Siuan, not to effectuate policy change.
Elaida has pretty much been wrong since she was a novice and concealed her foretelling that the royal line of Andor was key to the Last Battle. Typically she mistakenly concludes that it’s the Trakands who matter,not the former royal house of Mantear, the one Rand is descended from!